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Hmmm im just wondering did Davesprite really need to die in the Alone!Jade timeline? It kinda felt like he was collateral damage in the whole thing- Since Typheus was only aiming to wipe out John and LOWAS

Actually, Typheus may have been aiming for Davesprite, as well. I think the reason he needed to die is because the Davesprite from the Game Over timeline survived and will play a more important role.

Considering Jaspersprite tagged along when John brought LOWAS into the blank void yonder, I imagine Davesprite and possibly the other sprites came as well. I mean, they were all last seen together on LOTAK before that point.

If Davesprite did tag along, Paradox Space would need to balance his existence by dooming his alt!self, just as it did with the John and Roxy of the current timeline. 

Why one Davesprite over the other, though, I’m not sure. Maybe so John will be able to relate to him better? We’ll have to see. But yeah, I’m certain Davesprite is fine.

1) If John ends up re-retconning Vriskas death and the meteor crew goes through the personal growth that they're supposed to go through, what does that mean for Jade? Wouldnt John and Davesprite still be dead? And John knows that he was responsible for for their deaths so would he try to do something about that? I dont think hed try to retcon their deaths since he'd be weaseling his way out of the deal he made with Typheus and thats sounds like a bad idea

2 fin) (Though John was the one who came up with the idea to zap everyone to where Caliborn was and look how THAT turned out) Do he think he might try bring Jade to where the meteor crew is? Though that will essentially rewrite all the character development the meteor crew went through on their original journey… man this is getting confusing!

I don’t think John is going to mess with the timeline in any drastic way relating to Jade. I’m sure he realizes there would be consequences for interfering, likely own death. So if John retcons the retcon, I think Jade will still be alone in the new timeline, too.

I could see John making small influences, though, such as writing a note of encouragement to her or appearing briefly to say he’s okay. But as far as undoing John and Davesprite’s death or bringing Jade to the meteor, no; that would be interfering too much.

Alone!Jade would really be the main difference between the “fixed” Game Over timeline (when John traveled to “R3UN1ON” to get the ring) and the final Alpha Timeline. Note how there are two Johns at “R3UN1ON”; that probably won’t be the case in the final Alpha.

Of course, it’s possible in the re-retconned timeline, Jade won’t be alone at all, and it’ll play out almost exactly as it did originally. But… eh, that doesn’t seem likely to me. Who knows, though?

Thanks!

Some related thoughts and speculation

Doc Scratch:

Doc Scratch does indeed make pranks on rare occasion. I’m not sure it’d be something quite so elaborate and involving blatant lies, though. But it’ll be interesting to see if/when he does play another prank.

Calliope and the Third Scratch:

The “doomed” God Tier Calliope likely dominated because perhaps Vriska raised the Cherubs instead of Gamzee. Paralleling Caliborn, Calliope dominated prematurely and forcibly by having Caliborn’s dream self killed. It's likely this Calliope embodies the current Paradox Space.

Post-Scratch Calliope, the one who plays, is one who dominates naturally rather than prematurely. She will fully integrate/absorb Caliborn into her being, as opposed to expelling him, thus eventually becoming Calmasis.

Post-Scratch, the Cherubs are raised by Davesprite.

The third Scratch will not only reset the Cherub’s universe, but it might reset all of Paradox Space, as well. If so, Calmasis might be the one to embody the rebooted version, which is probably the new reality the heroes must escape to.

Vriska and the Green Sun:

Like how Roxy tagged along with John when he retconned the Game Over timeline, Vriska might end up tagging along if/when John retcons the current timeline. If so, she'll be a part of the true Alpha Timeline while her original iteration, punk!Vriska, remains dead in the dream bubbles.

Alternatively, Vriska dies in this timeline, and somehow SHE obtains the Ring of Life, thus reviving. (I don’t think punk!Vriska will be the one to do that.)

In either case, the Vriska of the current timeline will be the one to steal the Green Sun’s light.

Re: Vriska's Return and the Alpha Timeline's Fate

A few things–

Doc Scratch doesn’t lie, but he does tell pranks – foreshadowing which has never been fulfilled up to this point. Even if he’s not there to give a “Hee Hee,” the Egbertpunch – placed at a critical moment in Scratch’s elaborate narrative – fulfills the requirements of a prank.

If Jade’s Calliope is from a void timeline, then what’s the point of a Third Scra… actually, hm. What if this supposedly “doomed” Calliope – the one with no friends and no frame of reference for understanding human emotions – becomes this reality, the cruel and harsh Paradox Space we’re familiar with, while pre-retcon Callie… actually, no, that still leaves another Scratch out of the picture. Sorry, just thinking aloud here.

It seems like this (retconned) Vriska is going to be the one who steals the Green Sun’s light. That can’t just not happen… maybe that will be what causes John to try to retcon his retcon, but it’s too cosmically important to undo?

Not saying this theory is wrong, I actually really like it.

Remember when John said 'are you trying to fix your romance problems' while following Terezi's list maybe starting a blackrom with him is what was meant by that.

Heheheh, yep. I had the same thought.

In fact, if my double retcon theory holds any water, and eventually John lets Vriska die, it could be an interesting way to “fix” Terezi’s relationship problems with Gamzee (without Vriska being there). Her caliginous feelings could shift focus from Gamzee to John instead, thus not leaving her a total wreck by the end of the meteor trip.

Someone just pointed me to your "Vriska’s Return and the Alpha Timeline’s Fate" theory. I have to say it's very interesting, very well researched, and many of its points and premises -- like how Vriska fixing everything is VERY OMINOUS -- all seem like real, valid story factors we should be drawing conclusions from. However, reading the post, there was one glaring omission, one that explains why Vriska's return and "getting the star" is so ominous: What about the Green Sun's destruction???

Wow, thank you! I am incredibly flattered, as I really admire you as a Homestuck theorist! ^_^  (A lot of my own theories are based on yours.)

Anyway, regarding the Green Sun, I wasn’t sure about how to go about handling that. I do think its destruction will happen; your theory makes a lot of sense, and, essentially, I agree with it. Problem is, I couldn’t figure out how to incorporate it into my own theory. So I didn’t include it. It’s definitely something I’d be interested in exploring, though.

So, are the kids stuck forever? Or is Cali's statement wrong bc the chest currently in the hands of Meenah or Aradia, or is it impossible to get them out? Please explain, this can woo some people grasp the juju

Well, the way I see it, these are the possibilities:

This is an alternate timeline, either doomed, void, or split Alpha Timeline.

These are decoys of the kids.

Caliborn is wrong; they’re not actually trapped.

Caliborn is wrong; they ARE trapped, but somehow they will be freed.

The kids ARE permanently trapped, but will be “recreated” somehow.

Some other option I haven’t thought of.

I’m inclined to think it’s Option 1, but at this point, there’s really no way to tell which it is.

There’s just no way the Beta Kids will be permanently trapped in the House Juju (Homestuck, heh) in the ALPHA-Alpha Timeline with no hope whatsoever, though.

Hey have you read the upd8? --it seem like there's going to be two alphatimelines. One with retconning and one without and (maybe..?) one with green sun and the other with pink sun, one where all the kids complete reality's time loop and one where they escape

Huh! Interesting! I hadn’t considered it that way. But yeah, I do think there will be two distinct Alpha Timelines. That’s basically what my Vriska’s Return and the Alpha Timeline’s Fate theory suggests. I guess it’s slightly different, though. But, yeah. Hmm…

As far as I can tell, it just indicates the first player of the session.

In each session, the mini-square is within the squares belonging to John, Karkat, and Jane. Each of them entered first. (And are also the session leaders.)

If thats the case…… whats the mini square for?

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beyond belief is WAYYYY better please im begging you listen to it

I physically can’t stop listening to this song, it’s addictive

Okay so I've had some thoughts about this, ESPECIALLY as a Simon fan. If you look at my account I think it's pretty obvious that my favourite character of all time is Simon Lewis-Lovelace-Lightwood, and alot of stuff in the newer books, including TFTSA bother me about his character. I hate how Cassie keeps trying to push him out, she killed off all his character development with George, even all the other TFTSA characters like Jon, Julie, ect, in the later book more or less ignore him and there reason for being there is cause if Jace and Clary. Simon is allowed to have friends that don't revolve around Clace. I feel like his whole asension is so forced, never once has Simon expressed anything other than being annoyed or even hateful of the Clave and Anything Shadow hunter, ( Including RAZIEL, you know the angel that dictates who survives the cup or not that more than likely despises his ass after CoLS) so him wanting to be a shadowhunter is very unlike him.

Even so he should have been George's, or even Marisols Parbati, not Clarys. Not that I think he would have one period, He's JEWISH, a huge part of that is not marking your skin, including tattoos or Runes, which Are literally burned onto your skin! I feel like Cassie writes his faith over as character convenience, and other than the star of David, it Earley mentioned.

Cassie should have explored his experience gaining his memories back and rediscovering his place in the shadow world...which as a Mundane he would have had to CARVE.HIS.WAY. INTO! Even with his status. Like his strength of of will is imaculate, and his mental strength his what got him through, and is commented on by magnus or Alec (I don't rember) in LBOTW. But if course that is shoved under the rug, to make room for Julian and Emma...and of course more Clace. The only characters That really get explored outside of Clace is Malec, and I feel like that's mostly due to there fan base. Like Simon out smarted and/or out willed, Lilith(the mother of demons!) Azazel( LUCIFERS second in command), Raziel( a fucking angel) Asmodeus,Samuel,Valentine, Sebastian, Molachi, Robert Lightwood, Jace, The Seelie Queen, Raphael Santiago...shall I continue?? He deserves respect from that alone.

Don't get me wrong I love Clace, and Climon is one of my favorite friendships, but it's not focused on outside of competition for Jace( which he wins,cause why would Simon's literally life and or sanity outway his angst??) Or plot convince to get Clary where she needs as a character ( to get closer with Jace.) Even isebelle, like I love Sizzy, but her whole personality went from being a whip welding badass, to being a shallow heartthrob, who is only with Simon. There whole relationship ship is so forced...but she needed someone to take Simon attention of Clary,(so her primary focus can one again be Jace)

My god I never meant to write this much but damn Simon Slander gets me pissed, HES FUCKING IMPORTANT AND IN PAIN ANF UNDERAPPRECIATED, SOMEONE GIVE HIM A HUG!!!

I feel like I should mention my theory that George only died because Raziel couldn't take his grudge out on Simon, so he took it out on his BROTHER!!!

I think in the Tales, Simon was concerned that he couldn't become Clary's parabatai because he's a bit older than her and close to 18. But it was explained to him that becoming a vampire stopepd his aging, so he's still 17 and still has time to complete his training, Ascend and then take the parabatai oath.

I think CoB started with Clary's birthday but I can't remember if it was her 15th or 16th (I think 15th, because I remember my shock at how young when was lol). Considering that the whole TMI story happened in months (I really don't think it was years) and the vampire thing, he still had time.

All is possible for Clare's darlings! as long as she can play matchy matchy and pair everyone up in some way or another to play on that nostalgia factor.

Like why would Simon be parabatai with someone who's virtually a stranger to him after the memory loss curse?

Why because Clare needs everyone and everything to revolve around Clary (and by extension Jace and the SH world)!

Angel forbid Simon actually forgot all about them and lived his life as normal without having to abandon his family, friends and religion.

She even killed off George to make sure Simon could get the Lovelace last name AND didn't have to choose between him and Clary 🙄🙄🙄

It was Clary’s 16th birthday in City of Bones. As the events of The Mortal Instruments take place in 2007, and Tales takes place some months after COHF, it’s somewhere in 2008. Simon would turn 18 in October that year and Clary would turn 17 in August. And since Simon was physically stuck at the same age some time, there’s that.

Okay, they are both under 18 even if Simon didn’t manage to push through his education and ascension before October. It’s a tight schedule but conveniently Simon has a reason why Clary and Simon can happen as parabatai. It’s not exactly pushing the rules because it does fit and kind of make sense, but again, it’s convenient.

Parabatai were told to be rare, but now many characters have one after Clare got more enthusiastic about it after concocting The Infernal Devices. Before Clockwork Angel the only book in the series to use the word parabatai was City of Bones. Simon and Clary don’t feel like parabatai. I forgot they were when reading The Lost Book of the White until the line “He was standing in front of his sister and his parabatai and his parabatai’s girlfriend and her parabatai.” That’s more parabatais used than in CoA and DoG combined (which was none).

Simon continuing on with his life would’ve been good for him. Clary would’ve lost something, the story would’ve had more stakes. Simon did the heavy lifting for the plot in TMI and suffered for it. Simon got dragged into the shadow world because he didn’t want to leave Clary, but this way Clary could’ve let Simon go to live his human life with his friends and family. But who’d be Clary’s parabatai? Who’d date Isabelle?

Matchy, matchy.

I hope that when Simon and Isabelle get married, Simon takes the Lightwood name. I hate that nostalgia-baiting with the name Lovelace.

Ok so completely agree with your hatred towards Twyla! She's A LITTLE BI- i mean uhm.....

Quick random questions or shall I say opinion? You don't have to responded to this but there is a kinda cannon ship of these to characters.

The frog dude is from semi-aquatic circus, but what do you think

I’m a little confused by the wording of this

Are you asking if I ship anyone with either of these characters, or if I ship these two together?

I don’t ship anyone with either of them.

And I mean I don’t ship them together, and I’m pretty sure that frog is just a background character, so shipping them together would just be based off of vibes, but I mean they aren’t the worse pairing I guess. From vibes alone they could be a pretty cute couple.

Ok so have you played or watched a playthrough of crowscare? If so who is your favorite character? (Mines Ingram!)

Ive played it! Ive played and finished all of ArcadeKittens games (except Semiaquatic circus bc i like to wait til games like that are fully out and blackout hospitals true end cuz Im stuck on the boss fight still)

Its a little tough to choose, but im gonna have to go with Ryo! Hes just so cute and cinnamon roll and sweet! And hes a little farm boy! And his teeth! His teeth!!! The gap in his teeth!

Ingram is a pretty close second, I like his whole angsty teen thing. And I feel bad for him! And I love his brother relationship with Ryo! Its just so wholesome!

Omg! I just finished playing cemetery Mary! I absolutely love it! What is your favorite ending?

Yesss! More Cemetery Mary fans! It’s catching on! It’s clinically underrated but we can change that!

Anyways, my favorite endings is Crowvens good end and the true end ofc! (I’m a little biased cuz Crowboy is my favorite except for Mary, and the first route I did) Though Reginald’s good ending was also good! It’s been a while I think I’m saying the right ones lol. I’ve been meaning to replay it!

#next time i buy stickers from redbubble i’ll get these

@goldenkiva thank you so much! I made these designs with medium-sized stickers in mind, just a heads up! Because I’m not entirely sure how scaling images pans out with redbubble, since it’s my first time using them :’)

Fungus| solitude, loneliness, resilience

Forget-Me-Not| remembrance, mourning, loss

Coreopsis| optimism, fortune, always cheerful

These three designs are up on my Redbubble now, here! You can get them as stickers, notebooks, or bags. Please consider checking them out :)

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